A friend and I were recently discussing the joys of mid-30’s dating life. I won’t name her here for her privacy, but I will describe her stance on men, as it’s a typical one shared by many asian women, particularly those living in America as 1st or nth-generation citizens. It’s a classic paradigm that has evolved since I wrote my blog on this topic in the early 2000’s- I’ll happily say it’s evolved for the better, but we’ve still got a long way to go here folks.

This topic, namely, is that there tends to be a natural proclivity for asian women to gravitate towards white men, and almost dismiss glibly or apply a negative bias to fellow asian men as partners for various reasons. Call me bitter? Sure, go for it. It’s the silent elitist trend that only a few guys like me will actually have the wherewithal to identify and classify as an issue that is worthy of even being discussed. And to me, yes it’s a god damn issue. But hey – again, we’ve come a long way, and I’m perfectly happy at our progress.

I’d ask the logical question of truly why this is the case, where you always tend to see asian women-white men couples, and rarely vice versa, as I did in my dissertations of academia past. Many of the reasons are typical – negative experiences with Asian men, that they’re largely socially awkward, or emasculated nerds good at math, or martial arts masters (at best).

I am currently working on an update to my dissertation, which I’ll post in my next blog, but for now, I was happy to scroll through my old blogs and find this gem below. I was 23 years old when I had this online interaction below with a very typical type of Asian girl in question. This almost vapid-sounding conversation is actually not too far off from the actual subconscious thought processes of many Asian women even today. I guess some things never change.

Anyway, consider this the prologue for the main course that is to come soon. 🙂

PS – to the person who I was having this initial discussion with last week, check out #5 below in particular. 🙂

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posted in locke322.xanga.com in June 2003

i’ll go about this in an orderly fashion, as to avoid miscommunication.

Aceangee, i’ll just call you Ace for short.

after reading your xanga entry, i’d lie if i said i wasn’t disheartened on your outlook on asian guys. i am very sorry to hear that your experience with them has been far less than par.

i’m not here to tear apart your opinions, as they are completely entitled to be yours. however, i would like to respond by saying that it’s to your loss to generalize any group of people based on your experience within your 16 years. i encourage an open mind, with your interactions with white people, black people, yellow people, red people, blue people, and green people!

as i write to you, i mean to communicate a tone of cheerful admonition by touching on this issue; i don’t mean any offense of any sort.

all this said, i’ll start my commentaries.

Here is a quote from you before.

*****

I.) communication. i noticed a lot of ASIAN asian guys dont seem “deep.” they say a lot of “ionno” and “we’ll see” and that just really bothers me. i want someone that can be able to articulate well and clear exactly what he thinks not just “well.. you know..” and i know some “whitewashed asians” and those are the ones i dont give on, per se, because they act white!! they can say exactly whats on their minds, and i can actually have semi-meaningful conversations with them aside from “oh, what did you do today.”

*****

now, i am deeply sorry that your interactions with ASIAN asian guys haven’t been all too “deep.” i totally agree with you when you say that there are asians who have trouble articulating their words or speech. i sympathize with you on this, because i myself wouldn’t want a girl who couldn’t communicate well.  but. . .i have a little tiff about your bit on whitewashed asians. it’s not a negative thing to be a whitewashed asian, as i’m sure you’ll agree…but i’m curious…how do you feel about blackwashed asians? or, redwashed asians? it makes me wonder why the gold standard seems to be equated to being “white.” white people aren’t the only ones who can communicate effectively, and there are a great deal of white people who have difficulty articulating themselves. also, there are many asians who can articulate themselves well, just as there are those who can’t. you say that you won’t give up on your asian guys who act white, but what are you really saying?

bottom line is, you shouldn’t have to have a “white” standard to live up to. that’s downright degrading on any person who is asian, black, hispanic, or anything else. no race should have to assimilate another.

i’m an asian guy, born and raised in the United States. i sure as hell hope i can articulate myself well!

here is the second statement you wrote:

*****

II.) timeliness. i hate being late. i hate it i hate it i hate it. i leave my house ultra early to avoid being late, but many asians think of “oh, cuz im chinese/japanese/filipino/asian overall” as an excuse for tardiness, and i hate that!! i HATE IT!! it goes on my pet peeves list which consist of probably 8 million things. i know some asians arent like that, but too many are, and i think non-asians are better time oriented than asians, since amost every non-asian i know is very RARELY late for ANYTHING!!! i mean, i shower w/ a watch on so i’d be confirmed as to how much time i have before an arranged scheduling, and though i wouldnt want my potential man to be all like th at, i mean, can you imagine if you had your wedding, and the asian was all LATE?? ugh!! thats all bad times two!!! but i dont think i’d be able to spend long-term w/ someone that was constantly late.

*****

yet again, a personal bias from personal experience. i agree with you, Ace.

different cultures have different elements of their definition of time. in latin america, if a person invites another for dinner at 6pm, and the guest arrives at 5pm, they get to help prepare. if they arrive punctually at 6pm, they partake as usual. if they arrive at 7pm, they might still catch some of the food. if they get there at 10pm, the host will microwave the food or throw it back on the grill. the point is, in latin america, their sense of time is very relaxed, and this is a cultural understanding that both the guest and host knows. this also happens to be the case with many asian cultures. i’ve noticed that it’s very American for us to wish to push our ideologies and our own cultures upon others. it’s not a bad thing to expect someone to be punctual, and if you want that person to be at a certain place at an exact time, you should communicate that to them. It’s often misunderstood when urgency is not communicated. different cultures understand different things. in Ukraine, people are more focused on relationships with each other, more than being merely punctual. if a guest arrives 30 minutes late, the host welcomes the guest, thankful that they have graced them with their safe arrival.

 

now, i’m sorry, but your example with the wedding is utterly ridiculous. do you honestly think a mass of asian people would be late for a major life event like awedding?! if you’re thinking in your head, “uh, yeah?” either one of two things have happened: you’ve had extremely bad experiences waiting around for asian folks, or you’ve actually been to a wedding where the whole asian portion of the attendees were late. and if either of these cases have shaped your personal bias towards the time-orientation of all asian people, i am deeply sorry.

i feel your pain, Ace. i hate waiting for late people, and laggers…it’s my #1 pet peeve. i set my alarm clock 20 minutes fast so i can get ready and get to where i want to be early.

i may be asian, but don’t call me late.

here’s #3, comin right up.

*****

III.) personality. i’ve noticed black and white people treat their mate like royalty, and thats what i wanna do.. but asians.. dont. they treat them more like a slave/a friend to be all up on as opposed to their queen or king or whatever.  i know that my parents are asian, and when my mom comes home after 9 hours of work and my dads been home for like 6 hours, my mom still has to cook dinner and walk the dog and feed the pets and all this other crap, and my dad just sits there and eats and watches tv, whereas in many more western-culturalized societies, the household work does tend to be more equally divided (until children are old enough to do chores) hehehe. (: like i wouldnt mind doing the dishes if my man can cook. i want my man to be able to cook *which most asians cant do* because im a pig, and i need to eat and be fat. hahaha (:

*****

many 2nd+ generation asian-american women experience this fear, quite possibly from their experiences with their own fathers. it’s a sad thing, and i’ve seen it myself, how some old asian men treat their family, more specifically, their wives. if anything, i’ve learned from their examples as how not to treat my future girlfriend or wife. it’s always disappointing when i hear of asian girls fearing that asian guys will turn out to treat their spouses like crap, like slaves, make them cook, walk dogs, etc. whenever i hear these testimonies, i almost cringe…i could never imagine myself allowing my wife to suffer like that. i imagine that most reasonable guys would take prime responsibilities in the relationship.

your problem with asian guys was their personality. this is assuming that most or all asian guys share this horrific perspective of a relationship. i’ve got a news flash for ya, Ace. the scenario you just described doesn’t happen with just asian guys. i’ve seen worse in white families, in black families, and others. this sort of abusive behavior goes all the way across the racial spectrum. but i’m sure you have your head screwed on tight, as to avoid guys like that.

i’m an asian guy, and i cook a mean italian chicken parmeseana. i make continental breakfasts when i can, and know how to marinade Korean BBQ. my housemates, who are also asian guys, both know how to cook in their own specific genres of culinary style.

and Ace, i’m sure we’re not the only “flukes” that fly in the face of your generalization.

here’s number IV.

*****

IV.) too controlling. its like asians dont have enough trust. it has to be earned instead of having it earned and slowly be deteriorated (which is the case with me) i know that a lot of asian exbfs would compare me w/ their ex’s, and i’d know that its because they dont wanna make the same mistakes again, but to a certain extent its also like “okay, we’re independent people. im not her clone” ya know?? yeah..

*****

all i gotta say about this one, is that this is a GUY problem, not just an ASIAN GUY problem. it’s an obvious thing that a person shouldn’t compare their current significant other to any of their exes, but it happens anyway. it’s like a part of your survival instinct that informs you that something is happening, yet again. a person’s ego controls this instinctive nature by remind them that the new person in front of them is NOT the same person you dated a year ago. discovering and mastering this control over your instictive nature is something that takes years of maturity to learn. perhaps you’re just at that mature level already, and all the guys you’ve dated aren’t quite there yet. give them some time. they’ll catch up to you soon enough.

but don’t say it’s something that’s just specific to asian guys. that’s just wrong.

finally, number 5, coming up!

*****

V.) loooks. no offence, but asians arent the prettiest race in the cworld, and i wanna be able to have guy i can show off (which is contradictory to being jealous and having everyone look at my boo and making me feel bad) but i wanna dark tall and handsome guy to flaunt around to make up for my mediocre asian-ness. hehehe (: good looking asians are either gay or taken, so me looking for asian partners are just kinda far-fetched. i mean, i might actually have potential with black or white people, but not full-blown asians.

*****

the one line that got me, and let me emphasize…it really got me….is your comment on someone making up for your mediocre asian-ness. that statement actually captured the essence of your approach towards not only relationships, but your perspective on your identity as an Asian-American. “mediocre asian-ness”, ey? is that how you see yourself? so you think that dating a white guy will draw out the mediocrity in your social status and make you a more complete and superior person? puh-LEEZE! THIS is the mentality that i absolutely cannot stand in asian-american girls. i mean, DATE white guys! but at least have a backbone about it! you’re juxtaposing the whole entire asian race next to a supposedly superior white race! what are we, as asian-americans, supposed to do in this country? bend over backwards for a white person? i’m sorry, i don’t think so. and you talk about avoiding slavery in a relationship. . .

the topic of number V was “looks.” it’s a sad thing that the media has turned asian males into feminized martial artists, or straight up nerds or geeks. the closest thing i’ve seen to any properly male portrayal of the asian male was in Better Luck Tomorrow. and with your mind shaped by the images given to you in Hollywood, of course you’ll think that asian guys aren’t the best-looking guys in the world.

in a post on a UCLA newsgroup, an asian girl posted in response to the question:

“why wouldn’t you date an asian guy?”

her response:

“cuz they don’t look like real men.”

the image she had in her head could have been from her own experiences with scrawny asian guys, or from the pathetic images spewed out by Hollywood, but this posting was very disturbing to me. i can go in depth on the subject of the media and asian men and women, but that’s a whole new barrel of monkeys.

anyway. i’m curious as to what your definition of a “full-blown asian” is. i didn’t understand that one.

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well, Ace, looks like i’ve said what i had to say. i apologize if i’ve injured your conscience, but it’s my way of helping you out of a hapless paradigm. keep your eyes open– i like how you put your own disclaimer at the end of your entry, saying that your future one could be asian after all. truth be told, you never know what tomorrow will bring.

take care, Ace.